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Poster: dead-head_Monte Date: Jul 13, 2010 12:32pm
Forum: etree Subject: Happy 80,000!!! -- does anyone have this tape?

Happy 80,000!!! to everyone! I predicted 4000 bands by 80,000. That was easy. http://www.archive.org/post/270228/premature-ejaculation-70000

I'd like to find this tape, and get a copy for The Archive.

2010-April-xx, by Monte Barry - to Mike Harpring:

We worked together at WDRB-TV in Louisville from fall 1975 to summer 1976. I was a videotape operator there. We worked for Bob Cleveland, chief engineer. I gave my 2 weeks notice there. I announced I was going to become a soundman full-time and go to work with a new band.

In 1976 at WDRB, I created and videotaped a Bluegrass music show in the Studio there. You probably helped me out on it. I brought The Bluegrass Alliance band down to the station twice for this effort. They only had one color studio camera. So we shot the "Program" with a wide-shot of the band, and they performed enough tunes for a show. It was likely 60 minutes of tape. I had the band came back again a 2nd time. We played back the master quad tape, and sent the Audio into the Studio. The band lip-synched to it and played their music again. This time we shot a series of tight shots for the vocals and during solos, and recorded the video on a 2nd quad tape.

Then I used the remote-control edit package they had installed for 2 of their 3 RCA 2-inch quadruplex video tape recorders. I did some very simple "video-only" insert-edits into the master tape. We ended up with a faked-out 2-camera shoot. This program aired on WDRB-TV in Louisville in 1976.

It's not like it never happened. For posterity sakes, this tape is obviously very valuable. I'm quite sure you did work on it.

I am looking for a copy of this tape. I called WDRB-TV (Fox) over a year ago, and discussed this with them. One guy, who claims to have been there since the late 70s, swears to me that this tape doesn't exist in their tape library or their archives. It vanished!


2010-April-xx, by Mike Harpring (tech ops) - to Monte:
I remember taping the Bluegrass Alliance show very well. Steve Doss, you and I all shared the "producer" credit and we taped it over two Sunday nights. We used the Peavey audio board and some mics that I borrowed from my friend who owned Far-Out Music in New Albany. On the first pass, we shot the close-ups. Then we set the camera up on a wide shot and played the tape back for the second pass. We faded between the tape and the camera's live-shot on our Grass Valley video switcher.

WAKY disc jockey Tom Dooley was the host of the show. He had really long, full curly hair and a beard. The second week he showed up with short hair. So we had to do the intro at the top, and some ins and outs, a second time. We didn't set up the questions for the interview ahead of time. Every time he asked one of the players a question about the band, they referred him to Lonnie. The songs were recorded on individual 2" tapes. Then I guess that's when you edited them into one long piece. I seem to remember seeing some of the tapes later, but I think I might have given them to Steve. I never saw the "show tape" that eventually aired. It's too bad they didn't save that. The show could have easily run again. They probably recorded over it, since a 1-hour reel cost about $200 back then. I've been at WHAS-TV in Louisville for 26 years doing audio for the news.


Monte's soundboard recording - Bluegrass Alliance w/ Vince Gill - 1975

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Poster: Administrator, Curator, or StaffTyler Date: Jul 14, 2010 8:33pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Happy 80,000!!! -- does anyone have this tape?

Wow, 80,000 long before October 2010...

Now about 85,000, I say we hit that before the New Year, and then 90,000 by memorial day 2011!

keep them flowing in!

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Poster: dead-head_Monte Date: Jul 14, 2010 10:14am
Forum: etree Subject: Taper's guide for the 21st century

eTree.org is a community committed to providing the highest quality live concerts in a lossless, downloadable format. The Internet Archive has teamed up with eTree.org to preserve and archive as many live concerts as possible for current and future generations to enjoy. All music in this Collection is from trade-friendly artists and is strictly non-commercial, both for access here and for any further distribution. Artists' commercial releases are off-limits. This collection is maintained by the eTree.org community (Live Music Archive).

If, for some reason, you cannot setup your tapes in the Live Music Archive collection (more restrictions) -- BUT, you know your tapes are trade-friendly -- setup your tapes in the Community Audio collection (less restrictions). This collection is also called Open Source Audio, at The Internet Archive. Be a good Administrator.

The Internet Archive has a File Deriver that automatically creates lossy files, MP3s, ZIP archive files, and streaming files for you.

Internet Archive FAQ (freguently asked queston): "What are the options for downloading a full recording?"

Try combining web authoring, tape recordings, pictures, YouTube film and video clips, historical first-hand testimony, and some of your experiences. I'm trying it. Use their MetaData Editor.

I used the Creative Commons license:
Attribution-Noncommercial-No Derivative Works 3.0 United States

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Poster: easy jim Date: Jul 15, 2010 3:24pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Taper's guide for the 21st century

Monte,

I truly appreciate your efforts, but think the following is a very irresponsible position to take which may put archive.org at some risk:

"If, for some reason, you cannot setup your tapes in the Live Music Archive collection (more restrictions) -- BUT, you know your tapes are trade-friendly -- setup your tapes in the Community Audio collection (less restrictions). This collection is also called Open Source Audio, at The Internet Archive. Be a good Administrator."

The whole artist opt-in nature of the Live Music Archive is precisely what gives credibility to archive.org as a model, legitimate and above-board way for artists to share their music freely with fans in a non-commercial manor. However, the encouragement that uploaders add shows to Open Source Audio from artist(s) known to be trade-friendly, seems a dangerous proposition that will inevitably get archive.org into hot water.

For instance, many artists are trade-friendly, but have not approved previous requests to be included into the LMA. Why is that? For some, like Phish, it seems they do not want their trade-approved shows hosted in any permanent location, although they are OK with torrents and mail trades. For others, like the Allman Bros. Band, who allow taping and one-to-one sharing between fans, but frown on electronic trading, it is clear they do not want 'trading' without personal interaction between fans. Yet, to a partially or uniformed potential uploader, we may very easily see recordings from both of these bands uploaded, when they clearly do not approve based on past policy pronouncements, if they follow your guidelines. I think that would be highly irresponsible.

Open Source Audio should not be encouraged as an end-run around the approval process for artists being included within the LMA. Did we learn anything from the whole Sugar Megs debacle here??? To advocate such, is really to denigrate the work of the LMA admins in creating a model of non-commercial sharing with artists maintaining control over their music. And, it seems quite dubious to me from a legal standpoint that uploaders, whether the recordist or not, can place a sound recording of someone else's music in the Creative Commons.

I put all this out there with the most respect possible, and wish to frame it a bit further: in this age in which the record industry is seriously floundering, and record companies as well as artists are seeking to capture any and all revenue streams, how responsible is it to encourage a 'gray area' on archive.org right next a model of things on the 'up and up'?

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Poster: dead-head_Monte Date: Aug 7, 2010 1:41pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Taper's guide for the 21st century - new permission Jimbo!

e-mailed by: Frank Heyer and John Bieser
sent to: eTree@archive.org
date sent: August 7, 2010 2:16:59 PM CDT
subject: permission


"Frank Heyer and John Bieser are permitting Monte Barry to archive his recordings of our live music from the Lazy River band."

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Poster: dead-head_Monte Date: Aug 14, 2010 11:45am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Taper's guide for the 21st century - new permission Jimbo!

lazy_river_logo-160.jpg
added to Live Music Archive

new uncirculated SBD - put up today
Lazy River 1976-10-25.SBD.flac

circulated 2 years ago - moved to LMA
Lazy River w/ Vince Gill 1976-08-15.SBD.flac
Lazy River w/ Mark O'Connor 1976-10-01.SBD.flac

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Poster: dead-head_Monte Date: Jul 15, 2010 7:05pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Taper's guide for the 21st century

How do you contact dead and near-dead people? How do you deal with them, their relatives, curators, "managers", and lawyers -- all being total strangers to me? Most, if not all of the older artists have no idea what the heck is going on around here on The Archive. How many tapes should end up going into landfills?

Why can't we get beyond this debate? Honesty works for me. This is exactly why I'm posting this here -- not to mention, I have other lost tapes I'm looking for. Jim, our debate, in my mind, is spot-on. It is only an itty-bitty view of what you're actually pointing out. I salute you for mentioning this stuff again. You and I discussing this topic are the exception to the rule.

I try and contact musicians whom I have recorded. In my case, this is years later. If, for some reason, they cannot reply back to me, I will NOT have their "official permission" e-mail for eTree. This is the major restriction -- just for the Live Music Archive, due to eTree's requirements, that we are discussing. This is not The Archive's overall policy.

We have discussed this before, Jim. I appreciate it. My recordings are in 4 different Collections here. Who cares, I say? Use The Advanced Search Form. Use Google.

The LMA restrictions and permissions for bands are cited and given on a case-by-case basis. Each one is different. They have their own lists, stipulations, and conditions. It comes and goes -- on and on. Bands and Administrators can change their rules here in a moment's notice. They can add and remove shows at their discretion. It is impossible for me to keep up with all of this. There are 4221 bands in the LMA alone.

Regarding "named bands" not being trade-friendly, here are the guidelines I am using. They are posted at bt-eTree:

Please only upload torrents of audio files for Trade Friendly artists.
Never upload these artists! - This list is not all-inclusive.
- Hot Tuna, Blue Country, Jorma Kaukonen, Jack Casady or Barry Mitterhoff when connected to Hot Tuna or any other environment where the above are musicians.
- John Scofield
- Allman Brothers Band
- Garaj Mahal soundboards.
- No Peter Rowan per his management.
- NO Leftover Salmon from 2007 except 6/24/07
- No JJ Cale per his management
- Please follow all of etree.org's seeding guidelines.

I am also letting anyone else know how to do this themselves -- with or without my help -- cheaply, without a website, and without cheating. This is what The Archive is doing here. Many musicians, artists, and bands have numerous signed contracts with all kinds of restrictions and stipulations in them. I try to mind my own business, and keep it safe. The key here is, "Be a good Administrator. Tapes are from trade-friendly artists and are strictly non-commercial. Tapes are non-commercial both for access here, and for any further distribution. Artists' commercial releases are off-limits. Creative Commons license. Attribution-Noncommercial-No Derivative Works 3.0 United States." This is eTree and Internet Archive policy.

How many Audio items are on The Archive right now? 580,000. How many items are in Community Audio? 453,000. What's the problem? Please report them. Thanks for posting, Jim.

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Poster: Administrator, Curator, or Staffgreenone Date: Jul 16, 2010 6:12am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Taper's guide for the 21st century

Just as it's impossible for you to keep up with the band requests and changes in policy, it's impossible for us to keep up with the uploads to the Open Source/Community Audio collection.

So I'll say it - please do not post files to the Community Audio section that you do not PERSONALLY have permission to post. CA is not a catch-all, it's for otherwise permissible files that are either a) lossy, b) non-live, or c) non-musical.

"In using the Archive's site, Collections, and/or services, you further agree [...] (e) not to infringe any copyright, trademark, patent, or other proprietary rights of any person"

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Poster: dead-head_Monte Date: Jul 16, 2010 10:19am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Taper's guide for the 21st century

"CA is not a catch-all, it's for otherwise permissible files that are either a) lossy, b) non-live, or c) non-musical."

Is The Internet Archive policy today saying, "Do NOT put ANY tapes of live music recordings in The Community Audio Collection"? Do I need to remove all my tapes, except for the ones I put into The Live Music Archive? I can do this. I am telling you, the vast majority of musicians I taped know my tapes are here -- because I let them know this.

Should I delete all the Lossless Audio files in my non-LMA items, and leave the rest alone? I have one tape from 1984 that's less than 30 years old. For ALL of my soundboard recordings, the Artists gave me the SBD feeds to record them. In many cases, I was their employee and soundman. Except for one tape, everything else I circulated is over 30 years old. My AUDs are, frankly, pretty crappy with lots of flaws in them. Their Commercial value: they're worthless.

I'm thinking to myself, "There must be some other people in a similar position as myself." Most of all, I'd like people to realize that musicians are sitting on more Tapes than anyone else out there. I believe that the Musicians are in possession of 90% of all of the tapes of live music that we have never heard yet. I'm pretty sure the older musicians, artists, and bands lack experience about how things really work here at The Archive. I speak from my own experiences during the past 3 years. Right now, I don't want to be in this position, all alone like this. But, I have no regrets.

Please advise me further, if this is possible. Thanks GreenOne. Thanks Jim. I don't want any trouble. I'm not looking for any grief. I am pushing 60 years old. What I am doing is time-consuming, and it's expensive. It's a donation. The rest of my stuff is being willed to Greenpeace. Donating to Greenpeace is something I will fight for, not fighting over these tapes.

I'd like to resolve this, please. If you cannot clarify further, please say so. Thanks. Peace.

My tapes are here
everything from June 9, 1973, and later, are my tapes. A few others are recordings I worked on and upgraded.

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Poster: Administrator, Curator, or Staffgreenone Date: Jul 16, 2010 12:09pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Taper's guide for the 21st century

I can't say whether this case is specifically covered within Internet Archive policy, but I can say that we've been contacted by artists or their representatives for recordings that appear outside of the LMA collection, requesting their removal. Most are cordial, some are not, and each one is technically a copyright violation in that they have not explicitly authorized the hosting of their work here. It's one thing to archive, it's quite another to redistribute.

If, when you signed the contract to make your recordings, it included a clause that said you were at liberty to distribute them and/or archive them permanently online, then there's no problem putting them up. However, if you do have that permission, why not get the artist's permission to put it in the Live Music Archive where it's much better organized, and where it can form part of a better-defined collection, rather than the dumping grounds of Community Audio?

I wish I could clarify further but I'm not an IA employee and am not in a position to do so. I'm a volunteer curator who would rather not see our project jeopardized.

This post was modified by greenone on 2010-07-16 19:09:51

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Poster: dead-head_Monte Date: Jul 18, 2010 9:15am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Taper's guide for the 21st century

I really appreciate being able to put this stuff here on The Archive. All of us need to know what's up. Thanks. You, myself, and Jim have all said the truth. I'm still learning things. I'm mostly finished here.

Me and the artists didn't keep in touch. The body-count for dead Artists that are recorded on my tapes is in the double-figures. For Artists I have contacted in these past 3 years, they have been contacted at least twice by e-mail. Some of the artists are in their 80s. I did not attempt to "force the hand" of these or other Artists. When I asked them to write an e-mail for an eTree permission, I believe many of them didn't know what I was talking about. None of these Artists ever said "NO" to me.

Several of these Artists have several live music collections -- in their names -- HERE at The Live Music Archive. You can also find them in the database over at eTree.

Some of these Artists have many more tapes of their live music preserved elsewhere. They are circulating on the internet, with their knowledge. Visit the Steam Powered Preservation Society website.

A bunch of these artists are shown in my Items, posed together on Dec 14, 2008, when I was there with them! This gathering happened partially because they heard my old Tapes going around on The Internet Archive months earlier, and they LOVED it. My Items also mention the names and the circumstances for taping these Artists.

I have done everything here by myself over nearly 3 years, quietly, in Public, using my real name, piece by piece. I cannot bring myself to pressure and hassle these gentlemen Artists time and again, if some of them didn't answer my e-mails. They've earned the privilege to be left alone by myself. In my mind, good soundmen also act like bodyguards, and they always protect the band and the artists. Maybe they're smarter than me.

At the end of the day, my case is more unusual than most. I am making excuses. I cannot justify do so. I'm tired. I'm lame. I'm tech-support. I'm an old, retired Taper. All my items have my contact info. I am trying to make a donation here. I'm guilty of having some extra time on my hands to do this. Nothing else. We have NO complaints for my Tapes, after 2 years.

In short, I cannot discuss with you what I cannot discuss. Furthermore, this is the case for me, as far as the people on this list is concerned. With a few exceptions, the people listed below, and the people on most of my tapes, are a cadre of musicians and artists from the same time and place in important musical history. They played together in numerous bands and groupings. I am telling parts of their story on The Archive, as best I know how. This is non-commercial material. I am doing this for free. As I understand things - and I could be wrong, I am the sole source for these items on The Archive. If it gets decided, "Today we want to keep this stuff a secret," I don't have a problem with that.

At the very least, I can provide The Archive with this "unwritten approval list" for my tapes. People on this list have my e-mails, or direct knowledge of my tapes as a direct result of my e-mails. This is virtually "one-and-the-same thing" in my mind. Some of them have had phone conversations with me that I made to them. Most of them met with me on Dec 13 and 14, 2008. You have the photo.

John Jump
Bob Briedenbach
Sam Bush
John Cowan
Curtis Burch
Hazel Johnson
Bill Millet
Robert Pool
Al White
Marshall Billingsley
Jamie Hartford
Wayne Lopes - Van Manakas
Buddy Emmons
Doug Jernigan
Scotty's Music, Inc.
Steam Powered Preservation Society
Cindy Baucom approves Boone Creek for her husband, Terry, who was in the band. Read Cindy's review.

Mark Diamond e-mailed eTree to get approval for my Arabesque tapes

Phil and Friends is approved - I upgraded Phil's jazz tapes

GD is approved - my AUDs were originally placed in Our Media. At first, I didn't know how else to create my Items at this point. eTree picked them up from there.

I never put other tapes here that didn't belong here. I added some interesting archival material for all the bands I taped.

I thought I was helping everyone out here. I'd be happy to retract these postings. You may feel free to remove this thread. I can delete my tapes. You may remove my Items at your discretion. Please, feel free to let me know, or not. Thank you. Peace.

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Poster: micah6vs8 Date: Jul 18, 2010 9:31am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Taper's guide for the 21st century

I will quickly take this down , dhMonte . I hope everything is O.K. , and if not I hope there is hope . I will have good thoughts for you .

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Poster: dead-head_Monte Date: Jul 18, 2010 9:54am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Taper's guide for the 21st century

It's cool. Thanks. It's hard to remember all this stuff. The "cadre of musicians" is all split up now, decades later. They have their families and their careers. Many of them still gather each year at Telluride Bluegrass Festival. Norman and Tut are in their 80s. Bunches of them are in their 70s. You have the "dead-ones" partial list.

When we got together, on Dec 13 and 14, 2008, one very famous artist said, "We made funny looking old men, I tell you what." Then another one said he was amazed "everyone was still vertical" after all these years.

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Poster: micah6vs8 Date: Jul 18, 2010 10:25am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Taper's guide for the 21st century

I am glad everything is cool . I hope that you can catalog all the work you have done .
I won't leave your reply hanging . If I see that you have deleted your reply , then I will do so as well . I would normally not post in a thread such as this , but something in your tone yesterday and today , compelled me . I 'll still have some good thoughts for you . Have a good Sunday dhM.